HOLD THE MAYO
CATHI: So did you come from a musical family?
DANNY: Yes... my mother was a pianist and church organist and although my father was not a musician, he always encouraged us kids in our music.
CATHI: I heard that you were a classically trained violinist?
DANNY: Yes, I studied until I was about 17 or 18, but the high school I went to was a small boarding academy that didn't have an orchestra -- just a concert band. I wanted to be in the band so bad that I told 'em I played drums, so I learned drums real quick! I played snare and did the whole thing with the bass drum, cymbals, and all that.
CATHI: (Laughs) I didn't realize you'd covered so much musical ground!
DANNY: Yes (laughs), I played violin, and I got into vocal training... I was teaching voice and directed church choirs for many years.
CATHI: So I imagine you're pretty well trained in music theory -- especially as a teacher.
DANNY: Well, the surprising thing is that I didn't get heavily into theory when studying violin, and I felt my teacher didn't teach me a lot of things I had to learn later -- when I started playing harmonica a lot -- you know, chord structure. We were concerned with strings on the violin and the technique of playing, double-stops, positions, etc., but not really with chord structure. I was strictly a reader, so I didn't get into deep theory...and I was sorry later.
CATHI: When did you run across the harmonica?
DANNY: Not until I was 35 (laughs)! I was working as an engineering lab technician at General Motors and a companion there had a harmonica sing-a-long -- three harmonicas plus banjo. We talked music -- he loved musicians -- and he was always asking me to come over and listen to his band. They were playing mostly in pizza places -- projecting the words on a wall with a slide projector.
CATHI: The Mitch Miller thing huh?
DANNY: (Laughs) Right! So this guy kept after me about coming up to see him and finally his bass player moved out of the area. He wanted me to learn the bass harmonica, but I had no interest in that whatsoever. Just to please him, I went over to his house and came home with his bass harmonica and an arm-load of Johnny Puleo and Jerry Murad recordings...(laughs).
CATHI: So you didn't do the usual thing where you started on diatonic, moved to chromatic and then bass? You went straight to bass harp?
DANNY: Right. Straight to bass.
CATHI: Now how is the bass harp laid out?
DANNY: Just like a piano keyboard. The white keys are on the bottom row and the black keys on the top.
CATHI: What is it's role? Timekeeper? Punctuation? Kind of like bass guitar?
DANNY: It's like bass guitar -- a timekeeper. It lays the foundation for a group as the bass does in any group -- usually playing the root of the chord. But the more you get into it -- as I'm doing with Ron Kalina -- he writes in a different way so I'm not always playing the root. Ron writes for the chord and bass harps together.
CATHI: And the chord harmonica is laid out...?
DANNY: In the circle off fifths -- exactly the same as the left-hand on an accordion, which I also teach (laughs).
CATHI: And you said your interview would be "mayonnaise!" (laughs). So you weren't into the bass but you did it anyway?
DANNY: Well, yeah. I got into it and realized "Hey, this is FUN!" The thing was that as a vocalist I sang first tenor. I've sung in gospel and barbershop quartets, but I've always heard bass. I always wished I'd taken up a bass instrument of some sort. I was strictly a reader as a violin player, but when I got to bass I found I could play by ear -- no problem -- I could easily play patterns and changes.
CATHI: It must have been liberating after reading everything. I know so many musicians who, take away that paper and they're completely lost.
DANNY: Right! That was me on the violin.
CATHI: So which came first? The chromatic, chord or bass harp?
DANNY: The bass harmonica is much older than the chord. I saw a reference to a bass harmonica being made in 1920. I don't know if that's accurate, but I read it one time. The chromatic followed -- I think in the late '20s.
CATHI: So the bass was the first of the three?
DANNY: Right, following the regular diatonic, which included the tremolos and that type of harmonica. And of course, the diatonic is a very old instrument in Asia.
CATHI: Who influenced you as far as harmonica? The Harmonicats?
DANNY: Yes, definitely. That was my first exposure. The funny thing was that when "Peg O' My Heart" came out in '47, and I was still in gradeschool, I really liked that sound. I would stop at the corner Kresge store and play that old '78 demo record you know?
CATHI: Yes, I remember...I'm incredibly old!!! (Laughs)
DANNY: (Laughs) And I LOVED that sound! I didn't associate it with three harmonicas. All I knew was that it was harmonica and I loved the sound. But even then I had no interest in learning it.
CATHI: So tell me a little about your history with the Harmonicats.
DANNY: Well, the Harmonicats -- "Peg O' My Heart" came out in 1947 and they'd probably been together for four years by then. They actually were an outgrowth of the Borrah Minevitch Harmonica Rascals.
CATHI: And Jerry Murad was an original member?
DANNY: Of the Harmonicats -- yes. And when the Harmonicats did "Peg O' My Heart" they were not looking for a "hit" as such, but their engineer recorded them in such a way that it was a whole new sound -- with the reverberation, the echo -- plus the electronic harmonica sound. It was a whole new sound that just caught the fancy of the public's ear.
CATHI: I've wondered about the Harmonicat Trio format. Was this a popular thing that waned, or is it still as strong as it ever was? Is it growing, of what is your feeling on that?
DANNY: It's hard to say if it's as strong as it ever was, but certainly back when the Harmonicats were recording, a lot of new groups were prompted to form here and especially in Europe. And harmonica was popular for several reasons: the relative inexpense; it's easy to carry.... And a lot of people blame the Beatles for the harmonica's loss of popularity, because they introduced guitar to the kids.
CATHI: So do you think that occasionally a group strikes people's fancy and gets them really interested in an instrument -- like the Harmonicats did for harmonica?
DANNY: Right!
CATHI: And you joined the Harmonicats when?
DANNY: In 1978; I was with them almost a year.
CATHI: Did you enjoy it and learn a lot?
DANNY: Oh, VERY MUCH so -- very much so! I had to unlearn a lot of things as far as technique and patterns and all that.
CATHI: How to stay out of each other's way?
DANNY: Right.
CATHI: So after that came Don Les' Harmonicats?
DANNY: Right. When Don left the Harmonicats, he formed his own group -- Don Les' Harmonicats, with Mildred Mulcay and Bob Herndon. And when she retired, the group disbanded and he formed a duo with Mo Vint. Then when they split, Don formed another group. That's when he and I got together with Eddie Gordon and we started playing, but that didn't last long because Don's health was failing.
CATHI: So did these groups kind of lead into each other through friendships?
DANNY: Exactly.
CATHI: I notice that you play many standards -- beautiful work by the way. Are you doing the same style of music, pretty much, that you played throughout these groups?
DANNY: Well, yes and no. What we're doing now are special arrangements that Ron has come up with. They are unlike any other group except possibly the Stagg McMann Trio.
CATHI: Well I love this work you're doing now...so much must go into it. Ron does lovely arranging. How do you pick the songs?
DANNY: Well, Ron pretty much writes what he wants to write, and I have to say, he's got some really good ideas about what are people-pleasing sounds. We try to do songs that harmonica trios aren't usually noted for. Michael and I have suggestions too; and Ron'll write arrangements on things we ask for; but mostly it's his ideas.
CATHI: Tell me about Lee Oskar and Friends...you worked with Lee?
DANNY: Right. I moved to California to go to work for Lee Oskar and his company in May of '92. We moved from Michigan and I was appointed Director of Promotion and Artist Relations.
CATHI: Was it a big company then? He was a designer?
DANNY: The company itself was pretty big; they manufactured an awful lot; but the home office was just we three -- himself, his wife and me. Lee played Hohner for many years, but he was not satisfied with the product so he decided to design one of his own with various differences. Then he started manufacturing them in Japan...Tombo manufactures them to his specs.
CATHI: So I imagine you got to know the ins and outs of the instrument as you went. I can't imagine there were a whole lot of people who worked on them.
DANNY: Right...that's true. I was in charge of the service department which was just me (laughs). But I'll have to say that his harmonicas are of such quality that, percentage-wise, we just didn't get many in for repair.
CATHI: And you played music with him as well?
DANNY: Yes. Lee had a recording group. In fact he made a CD ("You and I," Samsung, 1995) and I did a cut on it with him, but he had his group doing a lot of his original music as well as standards. He played all around L.A. and featured the bass harmonica, so I played with him on a lot of shows. He's a great player -- not what you'd call a blues player, but a very melodic player with beautiful single-note lines and tone.
CATHI: What would you say would be the relationship of classical music to harmonica? I had hardly heard any before last year. Was it big in the States?
DANNY: Percentage-wise, probably not. But there are definitely some excellent players. It's one of those things that was prompted by Larry Adler; he was a great driving force.
CATHI: And now there are harmonicaorganizations like SPAH (Society for the Preservation and Advancement of the Harmonica) in which you've been heavily involved?
DANNY: Yes, for quite a few years. I was in promotion for a couple of years early on and then became Vice President, and then Executive Vice President for many years.
CATHI: How old is SPAH and how did you get involved?
DANNY: Thirty four years old; it started in '63. I was in the Detroit area, so when I got involved with harmonica activities, everyone was a SPAH member! At that time it was only a local club, but now it's world-wide. SPAH is like the parent of all these other clubs -- affiliated in name. It's not a thing where anybody collects club affiliate dues and sends it in. They are all individual groups, but under the SPAH umbrella.
CATHI: So if a person wanted to start a harmonica group, you'd recommend they get in touch with SPAH to figure out how to stimulate interest and start a club?
DANNY: Exactly. In fact SPAH has instructional forms and booklets on that, describing how to set one up, how to go about organizing, promoting, etc.
CATHI: You received the "Harmonica Player of the Year" award from SPAH in '86?
DANNY: Yes, that was a very nice surprise. It isn't awarded for playing, but for representing and promoting the harmonica.
CATHI: And then you won the ZAK Award? What's that award?
DANNY: That's a SPAH-West award from the L.A. area -- the West Coast version of the SPAH award. Lovely -- kind of like an Oscar.
CATHI: Did you have a goal during these years of playing...one you felt you reached?
DANNY: Well I didn't think about a goal, other than just playing, because I fell in love with the instrument and did all I could to promote it and learn. I had been playing seven years when Jerry Murad and Al Fiore approached me and asked me to join the Harmonicats. I replaced Dick Gardner when he took a short leave of absence. When he returned, it seemed like I'd done all I could do! ... Which wasn't true!
CATHI: (Laughs) -- Now comes the gear questions -- you KNEW I'd ask!
DANNY: (Laughs) Uh huh.
CATHI: I hear you favor a folded horn in a speaker cabinet to get a certain kind of sound. Also an equalizer and self-modified mic with a chest plate. That's my report on you! (Laughs)
DANNY: Yeah! Don't know where you heard that, but it's true. Except no equalizer...just a Shure Ribbon 330 mic. And I didn't modify it as far as the operation of the microphone, but just cut it off at the mount and mounted it horizontally on the chest plate so it matches the harmonica...you get better coverage that way.
CATHI: And the folded horns in the speaker?
DANNY: Yes, a bass reflex speaker enclosure called a "folded horn," because two 12-inch speakers face the rear of the cabinet...
CATHI: And throw the sound forward?
DANNY: Right...it bounces off the internal walls, the back of the enclosure, and comes out the grills on the top and bottom. It seems to give a better bass harmonica sound. I'm not talking harmonica -- I mean a good "bass" sound from the harmonica. The thing is, if you take a regular bass guitar amplifier it's not going to give you the sound; I've tried many.
CATHI: Well that's kind of a distance-throw in regular speakers.
DANNY: Um Hum, Right. I use a Garnett speaker/enclosure made in Canada -- no longer made actually -- the company closed some time ago.
CATHI: Any other gadgets?
DANNY: Not really. I use a throat mic some of the time. Ron especially likes the throat mic -- not for sound but for convenience and looks. It's a little microphone that picks up the vibrations right off your throat -- like off your vocal chords.
CATHI: Oh! So it's from your throat as opposed to picking up the sound of the harp?
DANNY: Right, but what happens is when you play the reed vibrations follow the column of air back down your throat and vibrates your vocal chords. You don't realize it or ever think about it, but that's what happens and then amplification comes through your neck.
CATHI: (Laughs) Amazing. Must be a completely different sound huh?
DANNY: It is -- kind of muffled really. Not my favorite, but sometimes for convenience...
CATHI: But you feel amplified bass harp is best?
DANNY: Well, unamplified is not strong enough as far as bass harmonica is concerned. It's a very reedy sound -- which I don't like. I strive for an upright bass or bass guitar sound.
CATHI: Now you've been with Ron and the New World Harmonica Trio how long?
DANNY: Two years -- February 21st was our second anniversary. We're having a great time. You know we spend a lot of time rehearsing because we don't do any "head" arrangements. Ron writes everything, and having never written for harmonica trio before, he had a lot of learning to do -- the structure of the chord harmonica and how it relates to bass harmonica, for instance. And he learned what he COULDN'T do as far as voicing and chord structures and the way they relate to piano keyboard.
CATHI: Well he's a wonderful arranger! That's a great boon to the group.
DANNY: Yes! And he really plays!
CATHI: Oh my, yes...so you've just released your second recording?
DANNY: Yes...our first recording ("The New World Harmonica Trio") was only on cassette tape, but the new one ("Time Was") is on both cassette and CD. We had a lot of fun recording it.
CATHI: And both recordings are self-released? Are there any labels you know of that feature harmonica trios?
DANNY: Yes, we put them both out. I'm not aware of any particular label that really leans toward harmonica, though of course Toots Thielemans records for several different labels as do others. And they get very well known on some of those jazz labels, but as far as I know, there's no particular harmonica label.
CATHI: Do you think the trio format is growing?
DANNY: It's hard to say. There are not many trios working professionally, and when we go out and play there's a whole generation out there that has never seen anything like it!
CATHI: I can testify! I didn't even realize this was going on! And harp players are such nice people; I've never met so many musicians I LIKED!
DANNY: (Laughs) Well, harmonica players are a different breed of musicians. You'll find that all harmonica players, from the very top down to the bottom, are all harmonica nuts. They will be happy to tell you anything you want to know. Back in the '30s and '40s most of the professionals had their little secrets they weren't about to share, relative to technique, tone, etc. But now it's so open that everyone will tell you anything you want to know!
CATHI: So what advice would you offer to beginning harmonica players?
DANNY: Well I would say -- and it's my own personal opinion -- to learn as much theory as possible and to learn to read.
CATHI: So you think if you learn theory and reading, that "feeling" and improvisation come more easily?
DANNY: I believe so; I believe it comes quicker.
CATHI: And what are your ideas on tone?
DANNY: I can only talk about the bass harmonica, but on it you want to play with an open throat and as large a mouth cavity as you can to give a full, deep, round sound. And that's especially true if you're playing with a throat mic, because you want as deep a sound as possible.
CATHI: Well your playing and the music of the Trio have really opened up a new world for me. Thank you for all your work with SPAH and for the excellent artists' itinerary you keep on the internet!
DANNY: Well (laughs), I'm going to do whatever I can to help.
And that last statement, in my opinion ladies and gents, just about sums up Danny Wilson!
CATHI NORTON
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Update: February 9, 1998
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